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This video is a Kauffman Foundation Entrepreneurship Issue Forum discussing how prioritizing community expertise can lead to more engaged and equitable research in entrepreneurship. It features presentations from various grantees who are exploring systemic forces, geographic inequality, structural racism, and community wellness within entrepreneurial ecosystems. The goal is to understand how community-led approaches and centering local needs can improve research and collaboration between researchers and practitioners.
[51:39] Matthew Gilbert: And I think the equity ends, you know, is useful for some people, but I think we have to look at it through the power lens because centering, centering the unit of analysis and looking at how it creates power so people can control their own destiny in their own community is what historically has not occurred in the United States for people of color. So that would be my offering of it, and I'm listening, interested to hear what Heather has to say.
[51:59] Heather Cameron: Thank you guys. I'm sorry, I'm just got off a flight, I'm in Vancouver, but very excited to talk about how we are centering, um, black entrepreneurs. Our partner, Wepower, has that at the center of their mission in terms of building political power and then through education and through asset building being able to maintain that power. So again, the way we think about centering is again, as a research university, how do we work with people on the ground who are doing this work and then also, there are studies that talk about systemic racism in St. Louis. Colby pointed out to some of them. We all know about the Ford Through Ferguson report for the sake of all and how do we privilege that work that's already been done by a lot of experts around studying systemic racism and see how it intersects with the systems that support entrepreneurship. It's not to be part of this discussion. Thank you, Heather. Glad to make it.
[1:05:41] Michael P. Arnold: Can you please repeat the question for me?
[1:05:48] Sarah Barrett: Oh yeah, so I'm wondering about this issue of power, um, and, you know, you're coming from a city government role and I'm wondering about the aspect of power and entrepreneurs in the community, um, and sort of your role as supporting that and shifting that in ecosystems and then Josie, some of your experience with dealing with decision-making among entrepreneurs and the power they're in. Just if you want to go first because I've already spoken. I want to be respectful too.
[1:06:05] Josie Gatti Schafer: And I also want to back up. Of course, it's a topic I'm really interested in. Decision-making around all sorts of topics is is interesting in that power becomes the explaining dynamic, right? You would think it's information and exchange of ideas, but it tends to be that we, um, create hierarchy and we create, um, sort of very small locus of power and control because that it makes us less accountable, right? When one person is the decision-maker, then we all look to that one person to make the decision, and they're right or they're wrong. And so power even in groups where the dynamic is supposed to be about sharing and exchanging ideas tends to kind of get sucked up into one person. And I think specifically when that one person doesn't have a lot of experience with entrepreneurship, doesn't look like those that they are trying to support or help or speak or come from different cultural backgrounds, it's really hard for them to understand what this idea is. And I think entrepreneurship is about creating wealth and it's about removing bias and getting the decisions right, but the way the power dynamics work, especially when it comes to money and public money, we tend to lose those good practices and focus on one person having some decision power. So we really want to see how groups can sort of fight that instinct, link and get back to sort of exchanging information and learning from each other rather than yes or no, one-size-fits-all decisions.
[1:06:55] Michael P. Arnold: Great, thank you for that. I actually wanted to, this is a great question. This is I have a great question related to this, which is really about measurement and how and challenges, any challenges you all are facing or successes around the story around the data around the evidence, um, getting to that point and understanding and illuminating, um, those differences as well as the strengths. And I'm just wondering if if you all have some insights that you'd like to share around collecting that information, especially in a in a way that does center, um, the individuals and doesn't feel like an extractive external, uh, approach to this work. And could we also, um, adjust the spotlights as we got this? I'll go ahead and jump in.
[1:07:17] Nia Richardson: Um, like I said, we're doing a census, um, to get data. We're trying to figure out fun ways to go about doing that. We have our City of Entrepreneurs campaign. So Kansas City is a t-shirt City, so giving away dope t-shirts, um, different little marketing promotional items always get people engaged. Like I said, engaging the ESO partner. So as they're working with people, they are getting, helping us get this data into, um, to our system. And again, something that they benefit from as well. So if there's a benefit for folks, then great. I think also we, this office has been open since 2009 and like I said, I've only been here for four years. We've definitely gained trust of the community. So if we say, hey, I'm going to get some data and I need to, I'm going to use this data for XYZ, I believe and I hope that the community trusts that I'm going to do what I say I'm going to do because I've done that so far in my role thus far. So it's not just the, oh, let me collect data because that happened a lot during COVID. We were survey fatigued for our small businesses, um, but we were able to collect data, use that data for advocating for different things, starting different programs, and the last time we did some data during the second round of PPP in May of 2020, we found that those businesses that had business banking or business association relationships were 38% more likely to access capital and ask for 8.3 times more money. So we found that relationships are essential. So we took that and said, okay, anything that we do, someone must establish a relationship, whether it's a new one with the ESO, the banker that they're working with, an accountant or bookkeeper. Those things must be established at minimum, even if they don't go forward with this or that or get access to capital, but they're going through now a process and they build relationships that can help them move forward. That's what's going to be essential for our small businesses. Yeah.
[1:09:47] Michael P. Arnold: Metrics are it's the talk of the town and ecosystem building, but it's it can be problematic because it's anytime you have a metric, you have to ask yourself who's defining what that metric is and why it has value. And and so this is why I use the term power versus equity, because you may have a group that doesn't want equity. They may want to do what they want to do. Um, so we can't presuppose true agency and power is I want to do what I want to do and I have the capacity to do it, and it may not look like what you want to do. Too often, we don't really define the term equity well enough to to make people understand. We're not talking about complete equality across the statistical board. And so if my people want to do something and it's completely unique and it leads to different kinds of outcomes, but I feel empowered and in control, then that's different. And so there's a lot of, um, endogenous driven metrics that have to occur in the ecosystems, but oftentimes that's not what funders want, policy makers want. And so, you know, to use the term black people understand, you often have as a researcher and as an advocate, have to do a lot of linguistic code-switching and and use terminologies that that support one group's energy to get what you want for other people. And this is inherently part of the problem that we're trying to solve for in the long run. So I I think from a metric standpoint, we have to really, really, whatever mentor, it has to be community-centered and it has to lead to the outcomes that the community that you're working to advocate for want to have. And you can't presume that simply because other people have measured in a certain way, that that's the measurement that you want. Simultaneously, we also have to be able to make the arguments to multiple stakeholder groups as to why we're doing what we're doing is relevant. And in some cases, bridge the gap between the community and the people that need certain forms of data and say, hey, is there an opportunity for consensus building so that each party gets what they want? And it's a tough task. That's why it takes it out of the realm of purely quantitative research and you really have to qualitatively dig into what it means to be part of a community and understand and lift that up.
[1:11:47] Sarah Gardner: Thank you for that, Heather. Yeah, um, just building on what was just said by Dell in terms of understanding what the community wants and and building it up. I was just teaching a strategic planning course on the weekend and just marveling again but had the value of doing theories of change. And as we're talking with, um, both activists and investors and investor activists in St. Louis, it's like, how do they think that change is actually happening towards more inclusivity and to fairer distribution and to try and understand what they think needs to change in order for the system to change. And we're getting very different answers, which is actually pretty interesting because and and then the different answers are showing what people think makes the difference and then what they measure. Um, and I think as we grow this project, we're going to understand better sort of the different mind frames of different types of actors and how to hope.
[1:12:34] Colby Crowder: Thank you, rashonda. Yes. So with our accelerator program, one of the things that we have really noticed is that just having a trusted relationship with the business owners makes a huge difference. And then being, um, really flexible in what we do and making sure that it really is centered on what they need. So what we started, we are in our fifth cohort now. Uh, what we started with in our first cohort in September of 2020 is very different than what it is now. And it's all based on what our business owners, the black business owners that we work with, what their needs are. And then really building those trusted relationships in order to be able to extract the data and the information that we that we need to see is this effective, this is not effective, what is it that they want from the program? Um, not coming into this like, oh, we know it all. So that, you know, we we're the experts with this, so we're gonna, you know, continue to put forth programming that may or may not be effective. Like we have changed so much based on what it is that they need. And having those trust relationships, being able to extract the data.
[1:13:33] Michael P. Arnold: I'm going to open this up pretty broadly to any of you to answer. What is your vision of what an inclusive ecosystem looks like in the work you're doing? I'll jump in because everyone's so quiet. Um, I hope that the work that we're doing really again, helps to close the racial wealth gap, meaning we are we have built an ecosystem that for anyone who wants to start a business, whether they're unemployed and starting a business for the first time, whether they're employed and this is a side hustle, or whether they're looking at doing this full-time, is that there's an ecosystem set up there's resources, a village where they can exist in that gives them the resources that they need to move from one step to the next. And the biggest piece that's going to be very challenging as a part of this process is making sure that at minimum, I have capital for them to do that. I've learned that if I don't have capital for these businesses to grow, if I don't have capital for my ESOs to grow, I can't expect anything to change. I can't expect any equity to really come into the ecosystem. And so I have been diligently working to identify capital, not going to what I call my dad's pocket, which is the city budget, and ask them for more money versus going on identifying opportunities like we have with Kauffman Foundation and this grant to help us begin to do the work and begin to leverage that to set up the other pieces of the ecosystem that we need to make it function as it should. So ultimately, I hope that Kansas City becomes a place and becomes that city of entrepreneurs where people can come start their business. Our ecosystem is so robust that you can do anything here. We're the heart of the country, so come to the heart where everything happens and we hope that that pumps through the rest of the country and supporting entrepreneurs everywhere.
[1:15:40] Lindi Roelofse: Nice sales job, Nia. Thank you. I would say I want to make a quick distinction. So the reason me and Rodney Sampson wrote Ecosystem Building in Communities of Color versus Inclusive Ecosystems is because they're two different things. So having an inclusive ecosystem means that individuals, wherever they are, can come in to participate freely, flourishing within the ecosystem. An ecosystem in a community of color looks at the community as the unit. And so when we look at the unit, then how does this community fully, is it able to fully participate within and develop their own ecosystem? And then that is linked up to the broader ecosystem, of course. And so there is a distinction between the two. And I guess I would point out too, for me, using that as a as a foundation, Black Wall Street, Greenwood, Oklahoma, 1906 to 1921 is an example of an inclusive ecosystem, or ecosystem within a community. Let me use the latter definition, the ecosystem within a community. And that's what I am striving for, while simultaneously trying to help communities become more inclusive for everyone. And I think if we can figure out two at the same time, that's when you're going to see this radical transformation in the American economy and greater equity and greater power.
[1:16:54] Michael P. Arnold: Two more visions. Lindy.
[1:17:00] Lindi Roelofse: Thanks, Michael. I would say that the stats are pretty bad for us as a starting point. Not only were we statistically deemed in a certain category, we saw the statistics come in from PPP money saying we're not doing much better in this. A couple of years later, so humility-wise, if we can increase the odds of our most innovative people to succeed in whatever they set out as an important and worthy cause, that is what we want to accomplish. Also, if we take a look at 60 years ago here in this same community, things were looking like, oh, it's going to it's going to get great, the end of segregation, we're going to increase home ownership, a lot of good things are going to happen. And unfortunately, that vision of everything getting better did not happen over the past 60 years. So if we look at history and the cyclicality, can we learn from what went wrong 60 years ago? And can we do better this time around? Because right now, we are beating the odds, but maybe we're this winning streak is not going to continue. Definitely not done, but how can we increase the chances of things getting better continuously? So that when people, um, with different lived experiences have ideas for solving problems, adding value, um, increasing possibilities for each other, that they have the tools or they can access the tools in order to start building potential capacity for the future. So how can every day we can get further? That is that is a win.
[51:59] Heather Cameron: Thank you guys. I'm sorry, I'm just got off a flight, I'm in Vancouver, but very excited to talk about how we are centering, um, black entrepreneurs. Our partner, Wepower, has that at the center of their mission in terms of building political power and then through education and through asset building being able to maintain that power. So again, the way we think about centering is again, as a research university, how do we work with people on the ground who are doing this work and then also, there are studies that talk about systemic racism in St. Louis. Colby pointed out to some of them. We all know about the Ford Through Ferguson report for the sake of all and how do we privilege that work that's already been done by a lot of experts around studying systemic racism and see how it intersects with the systems that support entrepreneurship. It's not to be part of this discussion. Thank you, Heather. Glad to make it.
[1:09:47] Michael P. Arnold: Metrics are it's the talk of the town and ecosystem building, but it's it can be problematic because it's anytime you have a metric, you have to ask yourself who's defining what that metric is and why it has value. And and so this is why I use the term power versus equity, because you may have a group that doesn't want equity. They may want to do what they want to do. Um, so we can't presuppose true agency and power is I want to do what I want to do and I have the capacity to do it, and it may not look like what you want to do. Too often, we don't really define the term equity well enough to to make people understand. We're not talking about complete equality across the statistical board. And so if my people want to do something and it's completely unique and it leads to different kinds of outcomes, but I feel empowered and in control, then that's different. And so there's a lot of, um, endogenous driven metrics that have to occur in the ecosystems, but oftentimes that's not what funders want, policy makers want. And so, you know, to use the term black people understand, you often have as a researcher and as an advocate, have to do a lot of linguistic code-switching and and use terminologies that that support one group's energy to get what you want for other people. And this is inherently part of the problem that we're trying to solve for in the long run. So I I think from a metric standpoint, we have to really, really, whatever mentor, it has to be community-centered and it has to lead to the outcomes that the community that you're working to advocate for want to have. And you can't presume that simply because other people have measured in a certain way, that that's the measurement that you want. Simultaneously, we also have to be able to make the arguments to multiple stakeholder groups as to why we're doing what we're doing is relevant. And in some cases, bridge the gap between the community and the people that need certain forms of data and say, hey, is there an opportunity for consensus building so that each party gets what they want? And it's a tough task. That's why it takes it out of the realm of purely quantitative research and you really have to qualitatively dig into what it means to be part of a community and understand and lift that up.
[1:12:46] Michael P. Arnold: Thank you for that, Heather. Yeah, um, just building on what was just said by Dell in terms of understanding what the community wants and and building it up. I was just teaching a strategic planning course on the weekend and just marveling again but had the value of doing theories of change. And as we're talking with, um, both activists and investors and investor activists in St. Louis, it's like, how do they think that change is actually happening towards more inclusivity and to fairer distribution and to try and understand what they think needs to change in order for the system to change. And we're getting very different answers, which is actually pretty interesting because and and then the different answers are showing what people think makes the difference and then what they measure. Um, and I think as we grow this project, we're going to understand better sort of the different mind frames of different types of actors and how to hope.
