This panel discussion features two fractional CMOs, Swanie Tolentino and Sean Foote, discussing critical themes for C-suite leaders in 2025. The conversation centers on mindful growth, smart prioritization, data-driven decision-making, and the value of strategic marketing leadership.
growing a business is hard but it does not have to be once a week we take a break from the hustle and bustle in business to talk about Innovations and what's new in the sea Suite this is the fractional sea Suite Retreat and I'm Joseph Frost pull up a seat of the fire grab a drink smoke a cigar and just join me as we relax learn and get inspired this Retreat is sponsored by your CMO helping organizations grow with better marketing strategy welcome I'm really excited about today's panel cast I've got two of our newest CMOS on our team joining us today swanie and Shan and we're going to be deep diving into some areas uh some themes for 2025 that we think are uh critical for sewe leaders to be thinking about um and having a conversation around those I want to first open it up to swanie I'm GNA ask a quick question then we'll introduce Sean can you share um your your name your background and then one thing that you think that uh the sea Suite leader should be thinking about today certainly thanks Joe for having me here my name is Swan talentino I am a fractional CMO with a number of years in the B2B space helping businesses be more successful reaching their clients um and growing their Market um to answer your question Joe I think the one thing in 2025 that is going to be in the mind minds of all the seite or business owners leaders that we work with is mindful growth expansion mindful growth expansion okay I'm excited to get into that topic with you thank you how about you Sean introduce yourself and one thing you think we should be talking about with SE sweet leaders today absolutely thanks for having me Joseph uh I think uh my name is Sean foot a fractional CMO full stack marketer with experience in B2B B Toc and B2B Toc um I think uh based on my experience and kind of what I've heard in the market I think a smart prioritization um we're going to have limited resources this year coming out of kind of some challenging times through covid and postco and I think some of that historical challenge has made you know per strings a little tighter so maybe Enterprise adoption or organizational adoption of like effort versus impact and everyone buying into that so Investments can be made uh smartly yeah so smart prioritization mindful expansion very similar top and it's timely because this is the time of the year that people are either finishing up their annual planning or or just getting it started getting ready so um you know as marketers we're we're we're in the SE Suite during those conversations how can we or how can each of you um provide value in either dealing with some smart prioritization uh or mindful expansion topics yeah I I mean I think uh as a a datadriven marketer and business leader I think I always point to uh to to data and what that the story that tells to help kind of weed through some of the noise so to speak and set it up for like the we got to First figure out what we need to prioritize then we have to do some modeling on it or some at least has some conversations around like again that effort versus impact model where you're talking about what can we do that requires the least amount of effort it makes a amount of impact and that's how you start to prioritize what projects get the funding and and how the Enterprise rallies around various effs yeah and data is always a trick um in our business there's so so much data these days how do you determine how to get the the right data to help make those informed decisions yeah it's a great question I've I've done a lot of uh architecture around analytics and I think um first you have to make sure it's clean um of course because uh operating off dirty data is a lot is a mistake a lot of businesses make um so making sure it's clean making sure your tracking is clean and I'm looking at this from a digital perspective of course and then I think again you go into at least What I've Done historically is you go into business questions and what business questions need to get answered with that data um and then once you have an idea the data is clean you have the sources intact and you understand what business questions there are that need to be answered you can start to answer them by visualizing that data then that helps kind of determine what is worthwhile continuing to focus on versus what is it and swanie what what are your thoughts around mindful expansion conversations and and whe that is inclusive or complimentary to the data driven approach yeah so I think it's great that Sean had raised data or data however you want to pronounce it it's um it certainly is um very critical for organizations to be informed you know before making a decision but it always is a balance so to me mindful expansion or growth is really around being very cognizant of what the organization's business goals are right short and longterm but also balanced it with the organizational capabilities and being very transparent about what is needed to be successful and that could be people process and Technology right that that whole blend of all of those things um so mindful means inform mindful means you know where you're going you'd say it's a vision I'd say it's just knowing the path or the goal you're short and your long-term goals and know where you're at basically um when you you blend all of those things all the other things we talked about that you could bring it to the table of you know exactly who you're going to Target get your understanding of your customer uh you're mindful about where you're going to put your dollars you know you're you know which one are the cash cow that's going to feed your business which ones are going to be a a long-term investment and and um you know understand it as such right and also adjust your expectations around it so it's a whole blend of all of these different things versus a shotgun approach or a reactive approach almost right of putting out fires that's probably the worst situation you can ever bind yourself in you know frankly in a business and how does having a access to a strategic experienced marketing leader um help with those um mindful expansion discussions or even those data driven discussions versus you know maybe a more midlevel or lower level marketer that has the same access to the data and the same access to maybe some of the goals and desires what is the difference of somebody who's um a fractional cimo that's that has that strategic mindset going into these conversations yeah I'll kind of take a first stab at that so I think businesses Thrive with strategic marketing leadership because there's alignment between teams resources and uh ensures long-term growth right and I think marketing leadership effective marketing leadership isn't just about campaigns um uh or or tactics it's about understanding business goals and crafting strategies that support those goals and drive measurable impact again coming back to the data aspect uh I feel like a strong marketing leader acts as a bridge between the rest of the SE Suite sales and creative teams and that helps uh uh ensure alignment and focus right I think what a lot of organizations are lacking now is focus they don't know really know what they don't know and what to Rally around and I think today speaking you know as a digital leader and it's a digital first world and uh leaders need to guide companies through that the constant change and and innovate and stay agile to customer behavior and te and Technology right we're we're focusing I think um swanie mentioned understanding your customer but what does that really mean what motivates them and and how do we really put um our messaging and and everything in our product in front of them in a smart manner what about you SW um so let's strategic right usually that means if you look up the Webster dictionary or Google the definition you know it is an adjective right it talks about long-term setting out a path you know being deliberate um and so I'd say when you listen to those words right and you think about that versus somebody who comes in just very specifically skilled at what they do um there lies a fundamental difference too right a strategic marketing leader or at least what I try to bring to the table is this big picture right this comprehensive knowledge of understanding uh what what one can affect the other um oftentimes uh there is that both bird's eye view and the specific skills in that function to even sit alongside a you know a web person right or whomever is the member of the team execute certain functions so I go back to the question right as as a strategic marketing leader you are there to help pull the right levers for the business to achieve the goals and many times it you may have to make trade-offs right running a specific event campaign that's always been done may not be the right thing to do but you have to be prepared to have the hard questions you can't just execute mindlessly either right and it's all because if you have a strategic leader that cares about this business as much as the business owner or the other SE Suite exx does right um then that is really to me the value of hiring an experienced strategic you know marketing leader or a CMO versus you know hiring very specif individuals or agencies to do very specific functions that they probably will do really well by the way not saying otherwise love working with agencies and other MERS members of the team but you know there in Li is the difference yeah I think the other piece is a a strategic experienced marketing leader is going to come in and and ask the hard questions that maybe a a more tactical Junior leader won't feel comfortable or not know how to ask why are we doing that why do we think that's the right target what's the other thing going on in in the business that suggests that this is the right path or the wrong path and a good strategic leader is going to be part of those tough questions that help really hone in that long-term Vision um I also noticed that well I also noted today had a conversation with a uh a business owner $4 million business looking to really got into where he wanted to be U with a lot of word of mouth and his early success and now he's stuck and this is so common and the question he had to me is do you have somebody who's going to come in and give deliver results in the next 60 days and I think I think that's a very common uh ask of uh organizations of their marketing leaders but a strategic leader is going to answer that question I think differently than a um more Junior tactical agency leader and So my answer was I think you should be aware of anybody that says yes to that question because it's going to take 30 to 60 maybe 90 days just to get the right strategy in place it hasn't worked for the last couple years you haven't had a new client in two years why do you think someone else is going to you know come in there and automatically generate results in 60 days um do you see those kind of uh requests as a common place as a fractional when you come in that that you know are a little bit I don't know naive or or too high of expectations um and how if so how you with it or if not what do you see yeah I'll I'll take that first so the short answer is yes absolutely and everyday occurrence and it's no more of a function or a result of the fact that there are at least in this world I mean chalk full of agencies right so they're there to sell their service they want to get in do what they need to do and then leave right and I also had a conversation right before this call with with um um actually an EOS Implement working with small businesses and he said you know you're sitting there thinking okay I got all the impressions what does that mean for my business um it is a function of because there's a myriad of agencies Freelancers or even people that they hire right that this is what I do and therefore this is how I could deliver some measurable results it is pretty common unfortunately um so there is a little bit of my personal thing now right about this whole thing and being a CMO myself um there there is a lot of of Education I think that still needs to happen for Business Leaders to understand that there's just so much value and opportunity that is untapped by not having the right person in that organization or said a different way there could be ways but the worst thing is they'll never even know it probably along the way um so yeah short answer to that is yes and I already went to my Spiel of what I wish is different right but this is why we're here we're hoping that it changes the mindset a little bit um that there is value tremendous value right in bringing somebody who's going to be more strategic and going to WR pull the right lovers with the team to accomplish this their their goals in a mindful manner right to get to that growth and expansion yeah yeah all the way into so I think this is really about uh transformation of I think overall business approach but specific to marketing I think we need to go from a scattershot approach where we're wasting resources creating confusion internally and externally to approach that's more focused and I'll keep bringing it up data driven and results oriented right I think what does that look like though because that's the secret sauce I think uh you start with an audit right you need I think to your point Joe you need to understand like where you've been like what has worked what hasn't you need to understand where your efforts are being effective and I like I mentioned that Impact versus effort model I use that a lot and I lean on that heavy and then you take that information that quantitative and qualitative data and you start to build a foundation right um you build clear objectives informed by past performance you get you get customer insights you have a strong value proposition and then you have the basic tools to start to activate with um again I leverage analytics and Technology of course to make sure that that you're monitoring success and you can iterate and scale um and then you can even like highlight highlight case studies of businesses that have moved from that structure but you know we don't need to necessarily reinvent the wheel all the time how do we move from chaos to structure right and and create I think that's really the basic foundation for a strategic mindset so I think at a high level that's really how I approach it learn from the past reset the present and then you know forward to the future yeah I think that's uh definitely the case my dog is in the background barking at it reminds me of the uh The Barking stories of all of the competitors that are saying I can do this I can do this I this and the noise that's out there and the value that a strategic leader can really have cut cutting through that noise um the other question I would add is how do we during the strategy portion of an engagement still increase the time to Value how do we bring value quickly to an organization as a fractional uh during the Strategic process I'll do you want me to take that first Sean yeah go for go for so we we've said a lot right they've it's almost a culmination to to try to answer this question so how do we bring value in in in in a shorter time frame right um it comes with as a fractional C I could have gone off and decided I'm going to work with clients on my own right you know I I have a specific approach I can do certain things uh this is actually where I i' respond based on myself my abilities and being part of your C CMO it is it is uh there's two things I'm looking at your experience as a CMO and the process and the methodology um that goes with being able to execute you know things fairly quickly um so that that those are to me at a high level are the very important ingredients so what does that mean one do we have the knowledge of what are all the key elements to be able to drive and execute an integrated marketing function in your organization things like technology you know CRM right um the second thing would be the process right H how are the how how are people process and Technology right so the people includes the ability to execute certain things so an assessment of the organization's capability is a methodology and process approach we have um that can be stood up in a relatively short amount of time whereas in other organizations it could practically take six months to a year especially if you're not mindful of it you're going to eventually know it but probably will take you a while you'll bump into things right and that's where inefficiency come when you have an end picture in mind when you can do the assessments up front of the organizational capability when you can sit down and create a foundational plan that truly is in tandem with the business goals and have the methodology again end the process to be able to build that get all the key parties involved agreeing nodding and yet still maintain a flexibility on how you execute that and how do you execute that right we have this taking your two-year goal to a 90day Sprints you identifying key um activities or or rocks we call it to execute and rallying the team behind it that in itself is also a discipline and a process and yet have the flexibility to adjust that according to what's happening in the business so again right the experience the person people right the process of how you're going to be able to integrate it so you have to look at the organizational capability to do that right and I'll I'll take technology as a combination of Technology but also the methodology in itself um so when that is done um properly then you give yourself the opportunity to be able to create value in a really really relatively short amount of time that turns the organization from a reactive mode you know into more of a proactive mode right of of of executing the marketing function yeah yeah I I totally agree with all of that I think it's a matter of what you're working with you know you have to really understand what the organization knows about its performance for is what it doesn't first and foremost because if I'm a very two things I think of often are efficiency and Effectiveness right so efficiencies with looking at data and putting it up against benchmarks to see like where we can be better right so highlighting that and Effectiveness is basically what your relevance in the market and taking the data sets you have taking internal perspectives external perspectives and blending them all together and then finding those obvious gaps or opportunities for things you can do maybe perhaps on a more tactical level that can move the needle is what I'd look to First yeah time to value is critical but then also when we look at just value in general we have to deliver as fractional CMOS monthly you we have month-to-month engagements which is different than a lot of agencies historically certainly full-time and even consultant work how do you see that as being the future of fractional work and the expectation of business owners in the in the future as we move forward this month-to-month deliver of value is so critical do you see that as a trend that's going to continue or do you think we're going to go back to more of a longer term um engagements versus the month-to month yeah I'll grab that one first I think this ties into what I said earlier you know but I think um month-to engagements offer flexibility I think there's some transparency involved there and it really helps with the results driven mindset making them ideal I think for modern businesses that need need to stay agile to that ever changing Market I mentioned earlier businesses need the freedom to Pivot and adapt changing the changing markets without being locked into rigid long-term contracts um fractional models that Force leaders to deliver tangible results U it's a little bit more concrete um and I think there's no guarantee of longevity without performance right so month to month uh forces a little bit of accountability more than a longer term deal and I think model also encourages stronger collaboration right it's kind of an evolver die scenario and the communication is so critical because I think trust is earned continually right but I think the combination of understanding hey this is what we need to do after we learn about your business over however long it needs to be but having that month-to-month um I don't know the clock ticking so to speak really adds some urgency and I think that's pretty critical and I think the future of marketing leadership is agile um we the Market's agile why would you create a a a structure and framework that doesn't adapt to the market and I think these month-to-month engagements embody the adaptability while also aligning incentives and business goals and results yeah I think flexibility it uh is is the key theme there month-to month allows a business honor the flexibility to um y do different things depending on the the results of the of the work being done or the changing and of Scopes that might occur what are some other areas of flexibility Swan do you think that well naturally that needs to be there yeah I mean just and and also back to your original question right the month to month I I sort of smile whenever I I hear that that piece right of what we offer because I basically think well why not you know obviously if it's if it's it's a different Paradigm and and some people I talk talk to haven't even entertained the possibility that there could be value in hiring someone and have this month-to-month uh commitment or guarantee whatever the word is right that you want to you want to say so why not look every business owner and their customer whether it's a consumer or another business know that they have to earn that business and they know that that customer can always walk away right and so we you know that's that's just the nature of the market now right there's so many choices and so similarly you know we're evolving youro to just simply reflect what is happening out there it takes the business owner away from huge upfront commitment the the the methodology we talked about in the process and what we bring to the table uh is is allowing them the opportunity in fact to see the value sooner so they can make better decisions moving forward about what it is to do with their hire fractional CMO or otherwise right so I think there is there's a lot to be said right and I forgot what was your follow-up question yeah are there other areas of our model that um that are related to the flexibility that business owners are looking for in engagements like ours yeah so I mean I'd say there are and as I was mentioning earlier about how business owners evolve you know they start from a trade a service becomes a business and now they need to grow they can find themselves in different situations so there are some businesses that may already have a team right but they feel they need to infuse it with some strategic leadership and Direction so one flexibility that um we offer is you know essentially to be you know working with that team right and the business leadership and then doing those alignment uh on a on a on a a shorter uh on boarding if you will um offering from your CMO or on the other hand there are others that they would want to bring somebody in that would really fit still in the seat of a CMO and they may or may not have you know enough people in their team to to deliver against the different marketing function and it is up for that person you know to to recommend what their organization needs to look like right in support of their goals and and financial uh position if you will so we' we've got flexibility along the range along that range right of being able to come in uh as an advisor you you know we as a a hot warm bodyi CMO that's sitting in that leadership uh in that leadership organization within the company yeah yeah the scope can really be um tailored for each individual company's particular situation their existing team and and the their existing that's part of the uh process that we built uh that flexibility is built in along with the month-to-month engagements makes it attractive offer Let's uh let's switch gears a little bit and let's talk about um customers because I feel like even this client I talked to this Prospect I talked to today when I was trying to understand who his ideal client was he had a hard time describing it other than cios and CTO and um we spent a lot of energy up front with understanding customers differently than maybe other agencies and other uh companies and and Consultants have what is the value of really knowing your customer and how do you get to know them uh the right way you want to take that one first Swan you want me to grab it um sure you can okay since you're talking I think yeah I think um this isn't just a marketing challenge this is a business challenge right uh whether you're in sales or or whether you're creative and you're designing something we all need to understand our audience we need to understand the the consumer the customer and I think a deep customer understanding is the foundation for every successful business strategy um especially in today's hyper competitive landscape um and what does so what does that mean right I think or what what do you need to consider I think you need to look at qualitative uh data or information meaning surveys interviews focus groups you need to look at quantitative data which is like effectively click data analytics and I think you need to embrace both of those methods to ga uh smart insights and then I also think consumer behavior is shift due to digital adoption and and recent economic pressures with covid and whatnot and the shifting landscape on a macro level and I think understanding all of those changes is key and and to go along with the the customer and I think highlighting how empathy and emotional intelligence can translate uh customer insights into actual marketing strategies is also a key meaning like how do you emotionally engage your audience right how do you how do you earn trust with them if you're thinking of the funnel from awareness to consideration to ision to retention when you're talking about lifetime value and I think investing in the customer understanding isn't just good marketing it's good business yeah that's completely agree Sean and just to touch on um you know a slightly different um aspect of it um and I'm I'm thinking of one of my you know past projects around customer um understanding your customer I smile a little bit because one thing that is fairly common um is that when even you ask internally in an organization you know maybe the head of engineer and you know the head of you know customer sucess you know whatever the case may be and who are your customer you're probably going to have different slightly different answers there there in lies uh a potential opportunity I'm going to not going to say problem I'm going to say an opportunity to look at so um the customer I mean there's the obvious part right you're not going to be successful if you can't reach your customer right and have a compelling persuasive argument as to why that customer has to go with you so understanding your customer is going to be key because TI and partial to that is having your entire organization locked behind the right strategy to go after that customer so I mentioned even internally it is not uncommon for people to people present you different definitions of who that customer is and even more significant I don't know how many I certainly hope a lot but do they have an external outside in understanding of who that customer is and even more importantly from that customer's voice and that ultimately is so key to have so in any engagement that we do um you know and I it is it is one part and parcel of what we call our audit assessment right Joe from your CMO is we do this buyer Persona um part you know of the project which is great because it actually involves talking to your customers and preferably even customers that went with you or even those that didn't go with you or chose or went to a competitor and you would have the opportunity of really understanding from their perspective um you know how they View and in turn that's like a mirror reflecting back to you understanding who your customers are you know and and more importantly it's not just understanding your customer but understanding their buyer's Journey because you need to get to the whyw how really quickly right in terms of your strategy so I think that's that is key and I'm happy to say that is a core part of what we do because we do know that is such a critical thing to get that right um from the beginning and obviously not you know with the opportunity to be flexible and adjust and adapt as you go along yeah that that buyer Persona project that we do as part of the audit probably is one of the strongest time to Value um pieces that we deliver and it's surprising to me all the years I've been around marketing how little companies and other consultants and agencies uh spend talking to customers when to developing personas they sit often in a boardroom and maybe bring a salesperson or two in and then develop this Persona based on inside out and without a lot of effort and really it's it's a low amount of time and a low amount of resources to generate these buyer personas from interviews with actual customers the insights are validating in some cases of the internal assumptions but also extremely insightful to new ahas and uh ideas for attracting these customers and then most importantly I think and it's not said enough is the messaging using the words that your actual customer use to describe your product or service or their needs is easy to uncover by talking to them and then it's very persuasive when you talk to them in their own voice and it's just such a simple concept but so many businesses and organizations just don't I think understand its value or how to do it maybe is more likely yeah yep and I think those are the kind of things that you know fractional CMO in our organization it's the it's it actually it's the only thing we require all CMOS to learn because all of our CMOS learn you know everything else on their own that's the one thing that we we want everybody to go through the process of understanding and most people you know have done work like that in the past so it's not brand new but it is so important to us that everybody gets um you know a chance to go through that and I don't think that's the same with other even fractional CMOS that uh work with customers what are some other um ways that you're often finding customer insights other than the the interviews yeah I think ultimately this is about listening right I talked about empathy earlier and if we don't understand our customers and don't listen to them I mean we're not effectively engaging and you know if you're spending on Advertising you're blowing that budget um spending on technology you're blowing that budget right because it's not as effective as it could be I think I feel very strongly that once you have great proper work in place you understand how to execute whatnot customers are constantly giving feedback both directly and indirectly right what does that mean like I think smart businesses know how to decode it example of some direct feedback uh reviews for e-commerce or products NPS scores surveys right or pretty direct feedback all a little bit more qualitative than clip data I think indirect feedback drop off points in the customer Journey what isn't working when I was talking to earlier uh social media Behavior social media engagement um any type of low engagement where things are broken or not working as quickly or effectively as they could I think you really need to understand like what tools are out there for listening and Beyond the interviews we talk about I know I've been parts of organizations like longer term of course that aren't is I would say equipment necessarily but social listening platforms right being mindful of the information you already have in your CRM um salese will effective sales teams will be constantly making notes and giving feedback so I think again listening to your customers is the first step and then acting on what they're saying is what builds advocacy and ultimately drives long-term success SW what are some of the um tools or uh technology that you found particularly useful useful for understanding customer Data customer insights well I mean there's there's some out there actually in the AI world that I'm also like even just playing around with right um no I'd say there there are the the I you know and also having come from come in a little bit of a corporate world are your usual suspect as Sean Sean actually mentioned a whole bunch of them too right which is get you know make it a habit right to actually get feedback from your salese right about you know as part of their pipeline reporting it's got to be part of that habit to really understand and capture what they're saying depending on the stage of the sales cycle because that's also even important um to really understand the customer Behavior throughout um NPS is a really good thing because that it gets into customer advocacy so you're just beyond understanding your customer you're understanding which customers and what's the advocacy are going to recommend you to the next customer and that strengthens your belief in whatever the data is telling you right um on on what they say about your and then further along depending the kind of business you're in let's say you know you're in a SAS business where you are actually your their usage of your product is so baked that you can almost see every activity and click behavior and whatnot that you could almost capture that understand them better and then be flexible in how you're going to offer more usage right or an upsell to your next whatever product that is on that same platform so I'd say there is all of that um there are other AI tools out there um that starts to I I don't know that I would use it as a a trusted source for now of understanding your customer but they can take say your I'm not going to name name the I can't even remember the actual names of some of the tools but even just take the buyer for an understanding right there are some tools out there where you can plug in some of your assumptions about that same Persona and that they try to say they not they try to say they say they have access to custom you know individuals Behavior segmentation that can allow them to provide some insights at scale right so when you want to execute something you know can you do that and help better inform your targeting you know how you're going to run your specific campaigns so yeah there there isn't a lack of tools there is more and that probably begs the question too of the Dilemma right of the SE sweep especially if you don't have an an expert in marketing that's sitting at the table I mean there are just so many out there that can make your head spin but then again it boils down to having a person who can blend both experience has an ey to the Strategic objective willing actually mind you I don't mind playing with some of the tools myself because if it's going to bring tremendous value why not but how you do it mindfully that seems to be my favorite word today mindful in a mindful manner to drive towards that business goal of growth and expansion right I think there just interjecting real quickly too I think there's also this like I would say ruse or Illusion that first party data tells you everything meaning the data from your platforms you know that your CRM your website your Google analytics that's like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the the data in the market right so how can you capture what's happening off your owned platform you know when you're listening to Social Media I can name a few like talk Walker Sprout hoot sweet some of these social media management platforms dovetail in with social listening and you start to listen to what your competitors are doing on their social you start listening to what's happening in the blog of sphere you start listening to what's happening in the news meaning these are all platforms you don't own you start to get a a smarter understanding uh that of your market share and where you stand and your brand sentiment but you also start to really understand um I think opportunity right this opportunity what you're learning can can help close the gap to competitors it also can Shine the Light on disruptors that you don't even know about potentially that are coming um in my time you know building those types of platforms it's been super helpful just like making smarter products making more effective designs making you name it obviously goes without saying you know more effective and efficient marketing activations but I think don't think just your first- party data is all you have while it's important when you're talking about Joe tying it into in a closed roomm with internal bias we have to go outside of that and start to listen to customers and listen to what the Market's telling us yeah well speaking of customers let's transition a little bit I'm curious as you look at 2025 you know what are your goals who are your ideal customers as a fractional what are you looking for what challenges do you want to solve in the marketplace who who do you want to work with what are some of your aspirations this year yeah well um I'll start Sean I'll turn it over to you so a little bit of what I was um saying earlier right um I look for the business owner well there's the basics a 5 to 25 plus million range you know is is a good range because that's when they're in this path of either um growing at scale they're experiencing a hockey stick growth right or a you know it could be the alternative which is you know they're seeing some stagnation of sales and want to either work to improve that or pivot right to to a different and new market so typically a a c from a business standpoint are facing those kinds of challenges um but I'm also looking for um that I'm and I say this mostly from from experience who I'm able to bring a lot of value to is also that that same business owner that um is needing a partner onto the table they've gone through this whole thinking of I can do it all myself you know to I can Outsource some of this functions but then I'm needing you know perhaps more of a a help right uh at a strategic level to my business who's going to care about my business as much as I do right and is not just there to deliver or execute a function or you know um and so that's the kind of client I'm looking for personally for me um I tend to I know Sean has has a more expensive you know uh Market that he goes after but B2B and those that are looking to sell to Enterprises and typically that's not even just one buyer you know that's even a buyer group at that with some influencers in the mix and what does that sale look like uh tends to be um kind of what my sweet spot is and helping the sales team within our organization be a lot more efficient you know in in uh in closing our pipeline yeah I agree with all of that I think um I've been fortunate in my career to have been part of startups SMB and Enterprise you know I've worked with the startups the tech startups I've worked with the Googles um so I think I've been able to see I've also been midmarket with like the Wilton and I think I've been able to see of course not not all situations are created equal but I've been able to see kind of what works and what doesn't to some degree so I think being with that 5 to 10 to 50 to 100 million in Revenue um really is a sweet spot because these organizations are looking to build what they're doing may let's say is a startup isn't working anymore right it isn't working anymore so they have to figure out a solution uh for scale um and when you're looking for scale you have to start thinking about you know swanie mentioned earlier systems and processes you have to start and some marketers hate to hear it know regulation you have to slow down to speed up and um having a experienced CMO or any fractional leader that been through it before can come and and kind of hold the hand so to speak the business owner that hasn't done it and can save them a whole lot of time you talk about time
